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I have two dogs, both with aggression problems. One is dominant/aggressive the other is fear/aggressive. I have been working with both of them after watching Brad and Cesar Milan ALOT and my progress is huge, I can now walk them both on leash with one hand, without them pulling me and feel like I have control back, HOWEVER - I cannot take them to the dog park. They do not know how to play and its one of those things that I don't even know how to practice. I have already figured out that one at a time is the way to go but even then am so fearful that a fight will break out. I have no way of knowing if the dog they are meeting is stable and will not fight. How do I start this process of having them be around other dogs, start with a muzzle? Any help would be truly appreciated - Brad, if you are reading this, I need you at my home!!!

Canuck63 I also had the fear of our two dogs getting along with other dogs. I was able to meet up with some grat people from here in the forums to start the socialization progress. It really worked out great for me. Maybe try and set something up with someone you know that may have a dog and gradually start from there. Our it had been suggested to me to go to your local dog park by yourself and talk to some people you never know they may also be willing to help.
GL and keep us posted

thankyou Patty. Baby steps I guess, maybe myself getting over the fear is the first hurdle

That is true. I remember meeting up with another dog for the first time and the lady that helped me told me to let my two off of thier leashes and well I was looking at her asking "Are you for real?" LOL I did and everything was fine. Mya had been socialized and well as for Bailey she had only knowen Mya so this was all new to her. Well that and while walking we would the odd time meet up with other dogs. The only problem I found is that she (Bailey) dosen't like other dogs jumping on her back. So when this happens and I catch it happening and I KNOW that she will snap I tell her before she has that chance "nice" and she will just leave things and carry on her way. It is about having the confidence in ourselfs and in our dogs. Like you said babysteps. It may take time but don't give up. I was ready to but then I thought to myself about all the fun Mya and Bailey are missing out on.

Abby doesn't like it when other dogs jump on her back end area either, and quite frankly I can't say I blame her. I do however, leave the correction to her. She simply whirls around and snaps at the air, and 99% of the time the other dog takes the hint. That 1% is when you have to be careful, but so far I've been lucky.

Also, most other dog owners that I've run into (about 90%) do recognize that Abby is giving a warning, their dog has been "told" and don't get upset about it. Abby has been in some good scuffles with other big dogs, and I've never had someone freaking out on me (I'm not talking about the aggressive attacks she's had on her... just playing well, and then the energy level gets too high and a scrap starts ...!)

Good luck!

Marion

HI Canuck 63

Oh I can SO relate...that\'s EXACTLY the situation I have just found myself in and it\'s tough.

I\'ve handled a dominant-aggressive previously but never had 2 with issues at the same time. I had actually thought I only had a fear aggressive (my female) but now my male has decided he\'s dom-aggressive! To make matters worse, they had a terrible fight between themselves a few weeks back which also was an alltime first experience for me and I\'m still struggling with that. I have NO idea what precipated it...they went from happy play time to all out war in a matter of seconds...my female was badly injured and my confidence in myself as Alpha is really shaken.

I am also trying to follow Brad (and Cesar\'s) recommendations...can I ask you specifically what you found helped the most? How long did it take til you saw progress?

I\'ve been saying we\'re in \"bootcamp\"! I\'ve done a LOT of umbilical and tried to mimic how Brad says to do it on the show...around trees, over benches etc (it\'s quite the workout!). How much time do you work separately with them? It\'s one thing to work one on one but I\'m still struggling when I try and take them out together. I find some aspects really hard to follow - not speaking to them is the hardest, also tryiing to put out a POSITIVE energy when I\'m actually feeling frustrated and upset over this seemingly new aggression in my male (he\'s nearly 3 yrs old).

I KNOW I couldn\'t take my 2 to a dog park...I do socialize with a friend who also has 2 dogs as well and for the MOST part that goes okay.

As far as the muzzle goes...there\'s pros and cons..the biggest \"con\" is they KNOW when it\'s on or off and you can see a totally different behavior once that muzzle is removed so it can sadly lead to a false sense of security thinking they\'re doing okay. I\'m barely letting my two play together outside...I\'ve had to muzzle my male while my female healed...mind you, she still wants to play with him but he\'s very reservd while wearing it.

My male seems unable to \"give warnings\"...if he snapped at the air like Abby does then I\'d be less worried but he goes right for a pin. Speaking of pinning - Have you tried pinning? That\'s the one thing I haven\'t done. I\'m very leery of it.

You\'ve given me encouragment knowing someone else is dealing with 2 with 2 issues and having success...any help you or anyone else has would be greatly appreciated. I\'ve looked into a behaviorist in my area but it\'s over $300 for one session and I have no idea if he\'s any good. I wish I could have Brad at my house too!!! (or in lieu of that I wish there was a coffee house we could all meet at and share our experiences/give advice etc...)

This is Brad's coffeehouse! Grab a latte and have a seat!!

I am going through the same thing. The Ottawa group will certainly remember Cocoa and me from Brad's seminar here. Sometimes her and my other dog get into as well and I never know what will trigger it or when. Mostly I just yell stop and it ends right there but it never used to be like that. Now after several hours of umbilical and other Alpha training. ( I recommend Brad's book) I am starting to gain on Cocoa. Yesterday I took her for her walk at the dog park. Haven't been there for a while because of her aggressiveness. Anyway, we saw a big black Lab and she began her lunging and growling routine. I yelled "Leave it" real loud and grabbed her by the choke collar and pulled her into a lie down position. She stopped and growled just a tiny bit. I held her in the lie down until they passed and when I let go she stayed there! I was amazed! I told her she was a good girl, gave her a pat and off we went for the rest of the walk. I am hoping to connect with some of the Ottawa group soon and bring Cocoa back to show them.

I was ready to give up on her. I just figured I could not help her but I didn't because of this website and Brad's book. Remember what Brad says "We chose them". You can do this. Stand tall even if you dont feel like it. Body language will help.

Good luck

Wendy in Ottawa

Thanks Wendy! I needed to hear that.

I will never give up on them, I promise! I\'ve just started to question what I\'ve done wrong to have my male become dom-aggressive..when I got him he was 6 months old and scared of everything and everyone. The last thing I EVER thought I\'d deal with was aggression with him.

I tried to avoid that a any cost as I had coped for 9 years with a very aggressive male who I loved more than words can say and still miss him every day BUT I didn\'t want the aggression issue and thought I had gotten away from it. But you (and Brad) are correct - I chose him (well both of them) and I would never ever give up on them...I felt that I had SO let them down though when they had their fight because right away I got all kinds of unsolicited comments about how I must be a very ineffectual owner and NOT Alpha at all...obviously I need to do some work and become MORE Alpha but the comments at first just made me want to give ON ME (not them) but that would be the same thing.

As for my fear aggressive female I was initially making her lie down and a \"trainer\" told me NO - make her walk past so I\'ve been a bit confused but it\'s all a learning process and I value actual personal experience more than an outside trainer who made not be well versed in behavior issues - so thank you for telling me about Cocoa...sounds like you\'ve done great!

I think I need to get Brad\'s book....

Hi,

Am so glad there are others out there, it would be so nice if we could open a coffee house, you are right, think of it too, any place that sells Latte's there's a strong possibility that Brad could show!!!!!

Anyhow, back to all seriousness here, my dogs are doing better although I am always nervous. I definitely don't frequent off leash parks but I do take them to an area where people let their dogs off leash. Umbilical is a key part. Am sure Brad would say something like this but if you have control over your dog, whatever the situation he will listen to you so the more he respects you, the more success you will have.
We did choose them and I also would never in a million years give my babies up so we fight the good fight and hope to come out on top someday.

Take care

If you are nervous, your dogs will pick up on it, making them feel like they have to protect you, which feeds the aggression.
It can become a viscious circle if you're not careful. The dogs get agressive because you're nervous, you get nervous because of them.
Even if you are nervous, you have to hide it. Stand straight and tall with an in-your-face attitude to let them know you ARE in control.
I hope this makes sense. If you can find past postings by Zoebelle, it will explain a lot of the same problems and how she finally, after lots of hard work, got through it.
Good Luck