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ok - the past 5 days have been hard on me

On Monday Keymo went absolutely NUTS on me after trying to get him to eat his supper. He's gotten into the habit of taking his time to eat his meals (especially if we're all eating outside, like we did on Monday) and I don't think that's good for him
I've always heard - put his food down and what he doesn't eat after 20 min, remove.
That way he learns to eat when food is given to him and WE as Alphas have more control.

If you read my thread Keymo's Diary from Monday, I talk about our issues that day, but basically, he was laying outside about 10' from his "left overs" and I squatted down near his bowl and tried to coax him to eat. Usually when I do this, he comes over and takes his food and starts to eat it. Not Monday.
He came over, took his food and dropped it about 2' away from me. When I went to pick it up again he snarled HARD at me and I yelled at him that he's not allowed to do that to me.
Well he kind of charged me, growling as if we were in a dog fight and even snapped at my hand a couple of times.
I freaked all over him , not backing down , but he didn't seem to care. He walked away a few feet growling in my direction.
I waited until he sat down and so did I, staring in his direction.
I didn't want to try and take away his food, because frankly I was a little scared that he'd charge at me again.
I waited a few more minutes then took it away.

Hubby never saw this happen.

Abou 30 min later, hubby was sitting on the lawn with Keymo and all seemed fine, so I joined them, thinking 'dog's live in the moment" and he's ok now.
Keymo walked a few times inbetweem hubby & I, with his tail down.
Hubby said - look , he;s sorry
I said - or still pissed

And he was ! When I tried to pet his back, he turned and took my forearm in his mouth ! Fast and firm!
I yelled RIGHT IN HIS FACE - LET GOOOO !
He did. Backed off and hubby put him in his pen while I followed.

Each day since Keymo has still been a little shall we say "indifferent" to me. I can tell he still sees me vs food an "issue" because he seems to be guarding it a little when I'm around. Like this morning. I was on the sofa and he had just been eating. One piece of meat in his bowl, but he was walikng around the room as if all was ok in Keymo's world.
I called him over to me and he came around in a circle and I could tell he wasn't totally comfortable. he didn't come to me for his usual bum rub.
he kept looking back at his food bowl.

Obviously he's holding a grudge or something and I'm getting upset that this thing hasn't blown over yet. Frankly my feelings got hurt on Monday and I'm still concerned that he's treating me different.

Help

What is the problem? Is this a struggle for Alpha ? Does he see me as a food threat now, that I followed through with a big "warning" then really did take his food away?
Or is he just worried and he's acting tough to cover his fear?
Holy cow - I'm on holidays next week and it won't be much of one if I'm dealing with "adog that hates me" all week. This should be a chance for us to enjoy Keymo's company for a week not be stressed .

You probably read the posts on the food aggression thread. Lynne brings up good points.
I think you need to spend time doing lots of umbilical and taking long walks with him to bond again or abit more.

I can tell that you do lots with him but there maybe some area\\\'s that can be improved on. You do like me and try to figure out what\\\'s going in their head. I find it helps to understand and work on the an issue but don\\\'t let it get to you. Just work on those strategies and feel good knowing that you\\\'ll get there again. Look at it as an issue that has come up and it needs work.

I find they\\\'re like kids in that things are going great then an issue comes up. You have to deal with it in a calm and assertive way.
It\\\'s great that your on holidays! You can spend lots of time with him. Better to have an issue come up now! lol
Don\\\'t stress! Things will work out!

Thanks - I told Keymo this morning "It looks like we're going to be attached at the hip for a while" , meaning Ubillical !
I think I'll also be the one to take him on his morning walks and leave hubby in bed.
He'll (hubby) be THRILLED

I'll read through that post.

You know what you are doing. I think he is dominent. I felt for you when you said you were a bit frightened.
He doesn't hate you-but when he charged-figured out he could control you abit. You did good-taking food even abit later. And he didn't maul you so he has alot of manners. I think he knows something is wrong and is confused.
I think I would have been afraid too- and yes my feelings would be hurt !
I probably would have kenneled him too. And then rethought just how much food he was going to get. He doesn't sound hungry and wants to save it. So becomes a conflict. What about less food that is eaten right away cause he is hungry-none left to be an issue over. And fed from you -his provider. He is a big beautiful dog -he probably eats lots and wouldn't take long for him to accept food from you and appreciate it and understand that you and hubby are above him.
I think that dog loves you and just wants to be in control of his food on his own terms.But now he will be tied to you and you get the control.And lucky you have time to do. Keymo will not hold grudges-hes just thinking he is top dog.
Am interested in what others will tell you as I fear food guarding or any kind of guarding even with a small dog. So aren't I the nice one -starve him and then give small amts so no issue with too much food. That is what I would do and may not be correct so will reading to see any other suggestions. He will start to treat you differently after some of the work you are going to do -

I forget what breed he is. I know I know I shouldn't be breed specific but I can't help here with the herding dogs. They do seem to carry things with them. Just my opinion.

Anyway, Ella did what you are saying and it scared me too. I did same thing. Waited until I felt it was safe to get it away. Or I think I attached a leash and started to haul up so she would sit and kept doing it until she got so tired she dropped the meat then I grabbed it and she went hungry for the day. Had to do that twice. I didnt like doing that so

I started hand feeding her. I did that for probably two weeks. I'd make her eat the meat from my hands and interrupt her and make her step back periodically. Eventually she wouldn't eat from my hands at all but she had also stopped being aggressive about it. I think she got the point that I control her food.

Funny how its changed. I don't think too hard now about reaching in and taking a bone from her though I am mindful of any tensing in her body. Then I have her step back or I can call her now to bring it with her to where i want her to go.

Keep up the good fight! Have great holidays and don't forget to have wild fun with Keymo too.

Yup reading it sounds to me like someone is trying to see how far he can push that your alpha and not him my guess would be he is challenging a subordiante pack member would NEVER challenge a Alpha for his/her food dont think of it as a grudge think of it as now he has won that little battle where he charged you, could he be trying to gain rank?? definitly go with LOTS of umbilical i really feel for you that is a crappy situation for sure!!! It sucks when we get that flash of how bad (if they wanted) they could hurt us I had that with my Lhasa when i was kid darn dog wouldnt even let me on my own bed (that was the last time she slept on my bed my dad made sure of that and she NEVER messed with my dad!!!) You feed raw right?? Im not saying it is connected but possibly do dogs on raw see it as being more important then kibble??? Once when Rowdie started to get snarly over her kibble so i began to put my hand in her dish and she had to eat each kibble from my hand ( i did this for quiet some times) she has never done it since!! I hope everything goes well keep us updated (ps you made my heart jump when you said he charged you (YIKES)

I agree- go back to absolute basics. Umbilical and while he's eating too, and maybe feed him holding the bowl and you doling out the food. After few bites, get up, put it away and leave the room with him. After a few minutes, go back and continue feeding. I wouldn't worry about him holding a grudge- dogs aren't that complex, emotionally. He just needs to reminded he lives in a dictatorship!

Hubby left us alone last eve and went to do some errands.
Keymo & I spent that time on umbilical outside and playing fetch while he's on his tree trolley.
He's been learning "drop it".
For the last 24 hrs he's been back to normal. It was like the day of the "incident" and the attitude that followed the next 3 days, never happened. It was like a bad dream.
What the ???

I've been the one taking him outide for "business breaks" and I'm the one who took him out this morning for his walk. Usually that's hubby's job.
Keymo has been eating all his meals - inside . Because when I look back at the times he's held onto any food, is when he eats outside. No more of that. Even last eve, he knew he had to finish his supper before going back outside, beacue he wasn't allowed to take "his last bite" outside with him. He ran back to his bowl, ate the last piece of chicken, the walked back to the door and barked. "I'm DONE. Let's go"
Mr Happy Go Lucky has entered the building.

Yes, TracyandRowdie - it DOES make you realize just how your dog could hurt you if they wanted to. Reality check!

That's why it's so important that our dog(s) learn to respect us! I know that I certainly had a wake up call with Keymo's incident!
Lesson learned - for BOTH of us.

I was going to mention feeding him inside too but thought after it writting it wouldn\'t make a difference. But now that you put it that way... I find Abby\'s eating patern changes when she\'s outside too. Strange! Can\'t figure out why thow...

Glad to hear things are better!

We're going to have our yard sale a week from today. LOTS of umbilical that day! It will be great for him to meet som many new people.
Maybe I could charge $1 to pet the white furry dog?