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At my family reunion last month I had first hand view of how these collars work. This cousin brought his male husky, he also has a female husky at home. At home, he lives in the country, the property is surrounded by an electronic fence. He knows his dogs test it everyday. He has watched them. He admitted that if he didn't have the fence on the dogs would be long gone..which has happened several times in the past. He has two collars programed to one remote. Well his dog didn't listen unless he pressed the button. That dog seemed so sad to me. He was older than Cocoa. I dont think he is walked at all nor did I see any of the kids interacting with him. Yet, my Cocoa with her martingale listened and played with him and walked off leash. He actually stated that he could never walk off leash or with out the "zapper" as the dog would take off. Cocoa will actually stay in my front yard and not take off..well if she sees another dog she might but she hasn't lately. Cocoa is very integrated in family life as well as my other dog Apollo. They are part of my pack and they know that.

My mother in law had the invisible fence installed at her cottage as she worried that her dog would take off. It worked, but only if he was wearing the collar for it. He knew if he didn't have that collar on he could go past it. So yes it can train but I would rather have my dog listen to ME rather than paying attention to a zap..what do you do if the battery dies?? or if you are somewhere without the zapper? As Brad says it can become a crutch..

Wen in Ottawa

The only other collar I've been using lately is one from InDogue, it's made on the same principle as Cesar's Illusion collar, except instead of being a choke type, it's got the martingale. I use it mainly if we're going downtown for walks and stuff like that, otherwise she's got her Hustle Up martingale on. I like it because it's easier to keep the Martingale part high up on her neck, she's got such a skinny neck!!

Eventually though, we're going to have start on a flat collar. I think even for the Canine Good Citizen test they need to be on a flat collar. I think for the classes I can use my martingale but for the test I'm not sure.

I was using a halti (hold your fire, I'm not anymore! ) But after Hannah broke TWO of them, I realized that they were not safe! I called the manufacturer after the first one snapped and they said "Impossible, you must have had the very RARE defective one" so I bought another one (I KNOW, ok, but she's really, really hard to walk!), and she did the same thing. I think once they learn that bucking backwards will snap the buckle, they will do everytime. Now I am back to a martingale and trying tricks I am learning on brad's show and in Synergy. they are working marginally, but there is a long road ahead of us. This morning we were out for a run and startled a pack (herd?) of deer and Hannah went ballistic. I'm sure I have bruises on my abdomen from her freaking out and pulling me around. But we got through it, sort of!

I was advised to use an e-collar to help keep Hannah in the yard as she is a rather persistant fence jumper but I decided against it. I just couldn't stand the thought of using that on a dog that had had such a crap life before she got to me. Not that I think less of anyone else for using them, like anything I think they have thier place when in the right hands.

other than that, we don't mess with too much stuff.... although I have a huge box of discards that I'll be donating to my adoption group!

I'm excited to say we're meeting Graham on the weekend to try on the collars! Is a 'flat' collar the e-collar without the shock part? Where abouts did you find the course Pattymac?

I live around Kingston, ON so one of the dog training schools is offering the course. I also ordered the book that\'s written by one of theVolhard\'s, they\'ve done several books on dog training and I don\'t mind their ideas and methods. I\'m going to try to limit treats as much as possible in class, alot of the time in that situation she won\'t take them anyway, so I probably will go with using a toy.

Flat collar is just a regular buckle collar. That\'s the only one you can use in Rally O and Agility, although usually in Agility there\'s no collar at all.

hey Pattymac, I went to college in your town! I LOVE Kingston!

My foster dog Athena has a lump on her neck and the vet suggested using a haltie or harness untill we knew what it was. I tried the harness because I didn't like the idea of the haltie. Unfortunately she seemed to behave worst on the harness. Since there was no easy way to correct her with the harness on I took my chances and switched to a regular old flat collar but used Brad's techniques. After only a few walks she got the point and now I don't have to worry about her neck, other then when the odd animal walks by.. but we're working on that!
With my next foster I'll definatly spend the money for the martingale collar. I bought my mom one for her unruly dog and he's gottan so much better!

Thought I\'d add my two cents. I know the bad rap, however, I use slip collars(perversely called, \'choke\'. My dogs wear, what I thought were known as the \'martingale\', but just was told it\'s known as \'elizabethan\'. Basically, instead of the chain, it\'s just flat collar material.
Can anyone else clarify these terms?

At the street safety in T.O. in February, I saw first hand what Brad could do with the participant's dogs in a matter of minutes.
Convinced me.
I would never consider using anything but a martingale collar and a 6 foot leash.
No toys, no gimmicks, no bull***.
Though I am definitely NOT the Master of the Leash that Brad is.

Been there done that - went through a lot of specialized training and money to use a SHOCK collar "proprerly" - the term e-collar just makes me laugh, its just a way of making them sound not TOO bad, at the end of the day your are still sending an electric shock to your dogs neck My dog was the black shepherd at Brad's TO seminar and I can tell that his methods have brought our dog so much further than we ever got with the SHOCK collar - we sold it on ebay months ago. Now we have a dog that respects us and not a SHOCK collar. Don't think your dog won't know when he is wearing a shock collar - he will without a doubt know no matter what you do, don't make the mistake of insulting thier intelligence. When I was using the SHOCK collar, I could never trust my dog when he wasn't wearing it and that to me is unacceptable. Unless your dog wears the collar ALL the time (which is not recommended by me or the collar manufacturers - I think they said 8 hours maximum), then you come to a time that you need to correct your dog and he won't be wearing the collar - then your dog has won and has also learned to ignore you - NOT GOOD. I also found that the collar was not consistent in terms of making a good connection with the skin and sometimes a correction could not be applied - thats pointless. If there is one thing I regret - its that we were too inexperienced as dog oweners when we first got Jake that we just went on the word of a "dog trainer" without questioning and unfortunately we probably confused the heck out of our dog - so now we owe him - lots of work and FUN!!

Brad's methods ARE a ton of work and require lots of effort and commitment - but why did we get a dog if we weren't going to give the time and respect that he deserves - having a dog is a huge responsibilty and therefore requires a lot of work. I can say that our dog has been more work than I ever thought he would be, but we are really starting to see the benefits - and its great!! Its really a lot of fun going to Starbucks now, snap my fingers and have my dog sit - the looks and comments people give are priceless!! I would never have attempted this before, not even with the "amazing SHOCK collar"